100% siding with Ion on this one. The players dont dictate game design and new philosophies and goals that they want to try and implement. Railroading for almost the entire conversation on one thing is just silly and nonconstructive. Just move on to a new aspect, otherwise you're just going to hear the same thing repeatedly and you'll just annoy yourself.
I don't mind having a semi-permanent choice to make with a covenant I'm binding myself to. I don't see why players feel they need to min/max borrowed power for every inch of gameplay. You all want to be on the same level with zero difference in ability based on any given situation. Maybe stop treating the game like the numbers are the most vital component of an RPG. I, myself, will choose what I like to play with (much like BfA essences/azerite) and I won't complain about it the entire expansion because it's marginally less effective. If you want to make your choice solely on what does more DPS, that's more of a personal preference than a game issue. These spells are just perks for the covenant you want to represent, it's okay that they aren't all equal in power/utility. My own covenant choice will be based on what I think is cool, not what ability does 5% more aoe trash dmg. I think players are getting a little too entitled to abilities. I'm not saying choice is bad but, at some point, it becomes a micro-manage system of layered spells, correct? Do you guys just want loadouts for every boss encounter and trash pull in the game, where you have to change talents before every pull? What meaningful choice would even be left for your class at that point? (Wouldn't even matter in M+ or WQC) Where would you shine that your competitor wouldn't, where could you stand out on an AoE vs ST situation? You guys want to keep watering yourselves down at the cost of identity in an MMORPG where choices/fantasy should actually be impactful and carry weight. What becomes attractive to different types of players if every choice is leveled into homogenization? Maybe I'm an outlier on this but it seems foolish.We pick a really cool thematic/aesthetic covenant that we resonate with and we get some extra tools to use. Like, can we stop rioting over one ability doing more damage for the min/maxers? If you want the highest damage go for the covenant with highest damage at the cost of cosmetics... I don't think the developers should have to change the fundamentals of their system because you want the BiS covenant for what you consider important. If the damage is what you're after then what would cosmetics even matter being inside an MMORPG-DPS SIM (for yourself)? I guess I agree with the Devs on this one. I don't think you should freely pick whatever covenant ability you want before every boss encounter, even if you aren't a part of that covenant. It just doesn't fit and it seems awkward. If I'm with the Kyrian and I do more aoe, you're with the Venthyr and do more ST or have a unique utility... I'm totally fine with that. It makes my decision impactful for myself that I am different than you and it creates a little rift, and I think that lends itself to what covenants are about.
has anyone noticed that he kind of revealed the release date?He joked he doesn't want to make a statement which might bite him in 3 months in live
Removed
Cant wait to be good in pve and trash in pvp cuz i cant change covenant. Cant wait for this balance of gameplay...
All I'm worried about is Conduits - make them function like essences and I can stomach your borrowed power bull@#$%. I'd rather re-spec my *!@# regularly than have to re-grind it or play what feels like a hamstringed spec - I had enough of that in Legion where I COULD play my offspec and often had to if I was being optimal, but had to play with ghetto legendaries, weaker relics and worse AP.I picked a pure dps spec to play 3 different types of damage dealing as I wanted - let me do that without feeling gimped.Destructible conduits punishes experimentation.
I don't even want to make a comment about why it is essential to make swappable covenants. There are lots of comments about that situtation. I am just gonna reply to those who think that only 1% of the playerbase (or the high-end players) want to swap their covenants: This is Asmongold's poll about "Which covenant are you picking on Shadowlands?" (Link is here: https://www.strawpoll.me/20539850/r). Oh, interestingly enough, 58% of the attendees chose to play whichever is the best and I think 58% is greater than 1-2%. Simple math, right? Know that it is 2020 and there is meta everywhere. You can be casual, or you might not be caring about high-end raiding,M+ or PVP. But this does not mean that most of the playerbase are in the same point with you. If you value the RP theme so much, then be like a real RPer and make your own rules about that. I have never seen an RPer is writing comments and whining about other non RPers can run for transport while he/she is walking for transport (There probably are far better examples for this situation but I do not RP, you get the point.). RP is your world, you make the rules and you follow the rules.Also, I just want to say that I like to play three specs of my Warlock main. Why is Blizzard punishing me for playing all of my class's specilization and not being a potato which has never ever changed his specialization? Some people WILL say that I can level four warlocks, I know that it is a stupid comment but I probably have to explain why it is stupid. Like I have said before, why am I being punished for playing three specs of my class? Is it not the intention of the game in first place? Why would a person which plays one spec would get away with one to four characters while I need to level at least four characters for the best covenant and at max I need to level 12 characters? If I want to rely on my covenant choices, then I have to level 12 (TWELVE) characters for seeing the best covenant for each spec. Maybe even 36 characters if we include soulbinds. Does this sound reasonable to you? Some people will talk bad about me but I like seeing my logs while my parse is epic or legendary. So, I want to change my soulbind conduits and my covenants for every boss, like I can change my spec for every boss. I like playing the best spec for each encounter. This is not just for having good parses. Most important thing for this is, me being respectful for 19 other members of my raid. If there is a better talent/spec/soulbind conduit/covenant ability etc. and I am not playing the optimized setup in a mythic raid, sorry but I am being disrespectful against their troubles. I always consider this and play for that.I do not want to be the person who whines about everything from the start. But this is necessary, sadly. There are two whole expansions which shows that they were wrong for their restraints (Azerite system in BFA and legendary system in Legion). The thing is, let's be real, they will most likely fix the covenant swapping problem and soulbind coundit problem. All of us know that. The thing we are discussing is whether they will fix this in 9.0 release or 9.2/9.3 release. Just fix the problem in 9.0 release and everyone will be happy. That is it.
I, for one, hate most of what I've seen about the Covenants system thus far.I rarely ever step into raids or mythics. I'm not very interested in "challenging content", so I play very casually. I open with this to establish I don't personally give a damn about what's "optimal" or "does most DPS". I've been consistently disregarding that to pick the talents/builds I have most fun using.None of the Covenants fit me or my main perfectly, but I like the Kyrian theme much more than the others. I'm still interested in the other covenants' stories, but I don't mind playing covenant-appropriate alts similarly to how I did back in the Legion Order Halls (a concept I loved; although I personally didn't feel that all of them were matched in quality, that's to be expected with such a large number, and the themes I cared about were well-represented).The Kyrian covenant-wide ability seems mediocre, but if looked at in isolation, fine. Thing is all of the others are more interesting, particularly the Venthyr one. I don't care much about the predictions that the "meta" will make it required for skips, but it personally seems like it'd be a lot of fun to use.I main a mage, and have a strong attachment to the character's themes (RP is a big deal to me). Unfortunately I hate the Kyrian mage spell. I hear it's the best DPS-wise and for many people, mechanics-wise, but I dislike the setup it involves. The other covenants felt like they have simpler spells that would feel better.As conduits and soulbinds seem like mostly simpler passives, I don't have strong opinions regarding them.One of the things I'm most disappointed by is the "covenant activity" for Kyrians. Venthyr get a really cool-looking party planner thing. Night Fae get a nice and pleasant Pandaria Farm thing. Necrolords get a kinda cool "build-a-bodyguard/utility buddy" thing. Kyrians get a damn Brawler's Pub arena. Effin' MEH.So if I were to pick a covenant based on fun gameplay, I'd pick Venthyr in a heartbeat. But while I appreciate their themes, it really doesn't match me or my character's theme. And I thought Blizz told me that was the ~player choice~ they wanted me to make. So ultimately I'll probably end up with Kyrian.If only the theme mechanics (area, transmog, plot, mounts, pets, NPCs) was a separate choice from the gameplay mechanics (playstyle) I feel like everyone would have way fewer issues with this system. I already picked a class Blizz, and I could choose among like 13 of them or so. AND made TWO additional separate, mostly gameplay-based choices (spec and talents). This covenants system is way too much bundled together, and kind of an obviously flawed idea from the start, imho.So that's the two cents from a person who is on Preach's side even though they're almost entirely unaffected by high-end balance.
I look forward to seeing people who defend this now as "its an mmorpg it needs meaningful choices" bellyache about how ^&*! it is in a year.Just like with BfA. You never learn.
THANK GOD ION STANDS HIS GROUND. THANK YOU ION!